In anticipation of
the 75th Anniversary of the outbreak of the Second World
War, I am posting the transcript of a short interview with Scottish born New
Zealander, William Glen (Bill) Barrie. Bill
was my late husband, and he was born in Hamilton, a large town in South
Lanarkshire, on December 18, 1930.
Bill Barrie did not
want me to record his life story – he said his story began when he emigrated to
New Zealand in 1954 – but he did allow our son, Charles, to interview him about
his experiences as a child during the war. This interview was for a History
project at Wellington High School. It was recorded on September 8, 1999 when Charles
was aged 15, and Bill was 68.
C: How old were you
when war broke out?
B: I was just under
nine.
C: How soon did the
war affect you?
B: The war affected
us the day after war was declared because my father, being a territorial
officer, was called up immediately.
C: Was anyone in
your family wounded in the war?
B: Yes, my father
was wounded on the beaches at Dunkirk.
C: Seriously?
B: Seriously enough
to be invalided out of the army in 1940.
C: Was there any bombing
at your home?
B: Not at my home,
but in my hometown. There was just one real bombing raid there, when a couple
of German bombers who had been bombing Clydebank, which was fairly close,
decided to offload their bombs in my hometown because there was a railway
junction there.
C: Did you ever
hear the sirens?
B: Constantly.
C: Did you feel
scared?
B: Initially, but
after two or three times I got used to it.
C: What precautions
were taken to prevent damage during bombing?
B: Concrete
shelters built outside on the street – some houses had other shelters inside. Sandbags
in various places. Windows were taped up to stop glass being shattered, and
things like that.
C: Did you get out
the gas mask?
B: Yes, everybody
was given a gas mask, and as kids at school we had to wear our gas mask for an
hour a day and have lessons with gas masks on, so we got used to wearing them.
C: Did you ever
have to use it?
B: Yes, because to
make sure that everybody carried a gas mask, the authorities would have raids.
They would go round with trucks, throwing tear gas, and if you didn’t have your
gas mask on and you got caught with the tear gas, well it was … bloody awful.
C: Can you remember
blackouts?
B: Yes, I can
always remember blackouts. In Scotland in winter time it used to get dark very
early, and it was dark until fairly late in the morning, so almost everything
we did, even getting home from school sometimes, it was in the dark.
C: What kind of
things were done during the blackout to keep the lights low?
B: No street lighting.
Every house had to have blackout curtains or blackout blinds put on them. So, in
the streets there were no neon signs or anything. Everything was completely
black.
C: Were the
blackouts frightening?
B: It scared the
tripes out of me as a kid, because I had to get up very early in the morning to
go and get the bread rolls for breakfast, things like that.
C: What precautions
were taken at schools for the bombing?
B: Most schools,
every school, had emergency rations, blankets and things like that in case
there were raids and you couldn’t get home. If your home was more than 15
minutes away from school, you had to either get a billet you could go to, or
you would stay in the school shelter.
C: Was your school
ever closed?
B: Yes, it was
closed quite regularly and at one time there was such a shortage of teachers –
so many of the male teachers were called up for the forces – that everyone had
half days at school.
C: Was that fun –
not having to go to school?
B: No, not really,
because in the winter time there was nothing much to do, and if you missed your
school you missed your school.
C: Now I’d like to
talk about rationing. To your knowledge, what kind of things were rationed?
B: Sweets! Anything
sweet with sugar in it. Eggs were rationed – we got one egg per week. We used
to say: One egg per week per person perhaps. Flour was rationed. Meat was
rationed. The ration per week might be two lamb chops and two slices of canned
corned beef, and that was your ration. That was all your meat for the week.
C: Were you aware
of any illegal ways of getting round rationing?
B: Lots and lots. Well
my step grandfather was a marvellous poacher and he used to be able to poach
rabbits and sometimes pheasant or an occasional salmon, and if we got more than
we needed, as a kid I would sometimes take a couple of rabbits down to the
baker, and the baker would give me a bag of flour and a big chunk of margarine,
and sometimes a small bag of sugar.
C: Did your family
try many interesting ways to get more out of their rations?
B: Yes. I would go
to the dairy farm and get unpasteurised milk from the dairy farmer, which was
not strictly legal, but he would often give us a can of milk, and I would take
it home to my grandmother who would skim the cream off it, and she would sit in
front of the fire with this cream in a jar and she would shake it – and it
would turn into butter. We got a little bit of extra butter that way because we
were only allowed two ounces of butter a week.
C: Did you eat any
odd foods?
B: Lots and lots.
We used to get a ration of dried powder, which, reconstituted, you could make
into a kind of scrambled egg. It was alright for baking scones and things like
that, but for eating it wasn’t very nice. Because we couldn’t get bananas, the
Ministry of Food came out with all these ideas for making things, and one of
the things I remember was a banana spread using mashed parsnips. To this day I
can’t look a parsnip in the eye.
C: Did you ever
feel starved during the war?
B: No. The
Government started the Meals in Schools, and every kid at school could get a
really good midday meal. And they opened up British restaurants, which were
just barns with wooden tables and chairs, and you could go in there, and for a
shilling, a person could get a good plain meal – nothing fancy but good solid
food.
C: Do you remember
growing food for the Dig for Victory programme?
B: Yes, again because
my step grandfather was a wonderful gardener – and because the house garden was
so good – we grew so many vegetables – he was given an allotment – and because
this allotment was so productive he was given another one. And so we had these
two huge allotments plus the garden, so we grew all the vegetables for the family
– we never had to buy vegetables. Some of the vegetables that we grew we were
able to swop for other things.
C: So overall, how
would you say rationing affected your life back then?
B: Rationing was
fair. Everyone got enough to eat. No one starved. There were very few luxuries,
but you could always get a good wholesome meal. As a matter of fact, it was so
good they reckon the kids that grew up during the war were the healthiest group
ever produced.
End of interview. 1130 words.
Seven photos from
the Barrie Family collection:
A group of boys in Hamilton, Lanarkshire, 1930s. We believe Billie is the boy in black, middle front row; and his brother, Archie, four years older, is on the right, back row:
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| Billie & Archie Barrie and friends, Hamilton, South Lanarkshire, 1930s. Barrie family collection. |
Bill Barrie, aged about 15, on a swimming excursion with friends, Edinburgh area, ca.1945:
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| Bill Barrie, 15, and friends. Edinburgh area, ca.1945. Barrie family collection |
Archie Barrie (left) on his National Service, Palestine, ca.1946:
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| Archie Barrie (left), National Service, Palestine, ca.1946. Barrie family collection |
Bill Barrie on his
National Service in Malta, 1950:
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| Bill Barrie, National Service, Malta, 1950. Barrie family collection. |
Bill Barrie, in
his late 20s, Head Chef at Mandalay Catering, Auckland, NZ, early 1960s:
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| Bill Barrie, Head Chef at Mandalay Catering, Auckland, NZ, early 1960s. Barrie family collection |
Bill Barrie –
assisted by Charles, aged four – making strawberry jam at home in Owhiro Bay,
Wellington NZ, Summer 1988/1989:
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| Bill Barrie, assisted by Charles (4), making strawberry jam, Owhiro Bay Wellington, Summer 1988/89. Photo Ann Barrie. |
Bill Barrie, aged
66, with his two younger children – both camera-shy at the time – Sarah (15)
and Charles (13). The photo was taken during a family visit to Bill’s home town
in July 1997. Donaldson Street is where Bill lived as a child:
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| Bill Barrie with his children, Sarah & Charles, Hamilton, South Lanarkshire 1997. Photo: Ann Barrie |
Blog by Ann Barrie
